Anyone Really Surprised about the Hollywood Sex Scandal?

[manclawz]

Within the past few weeks, after the Harvey Weinstein piece, there have been names thrown out left and right of various Hollywood producers/actors/politicians accused of sexual misconduct over various decades.

 

Kevin Spacey

Louis C.K.

Sylvester Stallone

Ed Westwick

Sen. Al Franken

Charlie Sheen

Tom Sizemore

Andy Dick

Dustin Hoffman

Jeremy Piven

Brett Ratner

Steven Seagal

Jeffrey Tambor

George Takei

Matt Weiner

Bill Clinton

... and this isn't everybody.

 

 

Even some adult stars have been accused like Ron Jeremy and James Deen from a few months back.

 

 

 

 

Some of the names aren't too surprising (Andy Dick, Charlie Sheen) whereas others were a shock to me; esp. Kevin Spacey, Louis C.K., and Jeffrey Tambor as I am a huge fan of their work.

 

I was wondering to see how everyone else feels about this and if can you still enjoy someone's work after being accused of all of this?  It's sort of a mixed bag for me because it looks like anybody can accuse anyone of anything and have someone's career and reputation tank after no proof in court of law.  But I also look at it from the accuser's POV too and think why they would want to falsely accuse someone who's, arguably, more powerful than they are.

[theDumbMule]

I'm surprised at the large number of accusations but not that it is happening. It's hard to balance letting the accused be innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the public with the rights and courage of the victims to be heard. I don't know that I have found that proper balance yet.

 

As far as enjoying the work that the accused has put out, I usually am able to separate the work from the person who did the work. It's understandable if someone is unable to. But in many cases the work of the accused and that of the victim who we want to support is contained in the same work of entertainment. I recognize that no one is perfect. That does not excuse some of the aweful things people do, but if I avoided all works by people who did something offensive and horrific, I think I would have troubles finding entertainment to watch.

 

Those are my two cents and certainly understand with anyone who disagrees. The whole situation is sad to hear for sure.

[Dannyboy]

manclawz:

 

"...and this isn't everybody."  Since you placed Bill Clinton on the list it's only fair to add Donald Trump. While we're at it you could add Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson. I'm not thinking of adding Mike Tyson; I think his conviction was unjust.

 

Dannyboy

[Dannyboy]

To answer the question directly I am not surprised. 

 

30 - 40 years ago I was listening to a radio show and a criminologist was talking about sexual abuse. He said that the stereotype of a sexual abuser in not a drunken, slovenly reject of society who jumps out of an alley and abducts and rapes his victim - or someone who reads pornography and is otherwise perverted. 

 

What he said left a lasting impression on me. The sexual abuser is a person who, generally, is a respected member of the community because of his position, power or wealth. He went on to say it could be a scoutmaster, a priest, a rabbi, a teacher, a coach, a boss, an uncle, a politician, a lawyer et al ad nauseam.

 

This has been going on for centuries. Most get away with it because they are privileged and the victim is weaker.  Now we see that even the ones who preach morals, faithfulness, celibacy and respect do this despite their public positions. Most lie about it, attack their victims and believe that their power will protect them.

 

I was aware of Bill Cosby's predilections in the '80's so I wasn't surprised when the victims brought it up years later. Very often women had to "play ball" to get ahead. When I see otherwise respectable people defend the perpetrators and see how female spokespersons in effect betray their own gender I should be surprised but I am not.

 

Should anybody be surprised at this stage of the game? There are no values any more. There are only personalities who are attacked or defended but they are all pretty much the same.

 

Dannyboy

[manclawz]

manclawz:

 

"...and this isn't everybody."  Since you placed Bill Clinton on the list it's only fair to add Donald Trump. While we're at it you could add Bill Cosby and Michael Jackson. I'm not thinking of adding Mike Tyson; I think his conviction was unjust.

 

Dannyboy

 

I put Clinton on there because he's been making the news recently.  The others (Cosby, Jackson, Tyson) weren't part of these current events.

[purgatorio]

"I was wondering to see how everyone else feels about this and if can you still enjoy someone's work after being accused of all of this?"

 

The work is the work,

the person is the person.

The rest is bullshit.

[Mistress Kang]

"I was wondering to see how everyone else feels about this and if can you still enjoy someone's work after being accused of all of this?"

 

The work is the work,

the person is the person.

The rest is bullshit.

Surprisingly, purgatorio, I agree with you.

[Jayman]

"I was wondering to see how everyone else feels about this and if can you still enjoy someone's work after being accused of all of this?"

 

The work is the work,

the person is the person.

The rest is bullshit.

 

Agreed. 

 

But I think the only one that has a chance of bouncing back is Louis CK.  He owned up to it as soon as the news broke.

[wild willie]

Guilty must proven man or women 30 40 years ago...bad politics not on bored with retro accusions

[manclawz]

Agreed. 

 

But I think the only one that has a chance of bouncing back is Louis CK.  He owned up to it as soon as the news broke.

 

Louis C.K. was questioned about "the rumors" surrounding him for some time before the news story broke.  He used to say something along the lines of "not giving the rumors life" when he refused to talk about it when questioned.

 

He admitted to it because he was cornered, not due to his own choosing.

[jpcpat]

Philip Seymour Hoffman disliked giving interviews because he felt that getting to know him as a person changed how you saw the characters he was playing. It's certainly true.

 

I can still enjoy many of Mel Gibson's performances, even knowing the things he's said and done: To me, there's little intersection between what he's done and who he's playing. OTOH, I couldn't watch a Cosby show rerun without wondering whether he slipped Lisa Bonet a rufie at some point. 

 

I don't think the revelation that Famous Person X grabbed somebody's ass 40 years ago should result in a banning of all their previous work. Going forward, however, a producer has to think not just in terms of box office power, but in terms of the safety of all the people on the set.

 

For the most part these sexual predations are not about sex, they're about power. They're about saying "I'm Famous Person X, and you're a nobody. Nobody will believe you, so I can do what I want."  BDSM, by it's nature involves exchanging that level of power, but voluntarily. Taking that power without consent is, to my mind, rape.    

 

One of the messages I'm hearing is:  You're never powerful enough to get away with it.

 

.I was wondering to see how everyone else feels about this and if can you still enjoy someone's work after being accused of all of this?  It's sort of a mixed bag for me because it looks like anybody can accuse anyone of anything and have someone's career and reputation tank after no proof in court of law.  But I also look at it from the accuser's POV too and think why they would want to falsely accuse someone who's, arguably, more powerful than they are.

[Dannyboy]

 

One of the messages I'm hearing is:  You're never powerful enough to get away with it.

Never is a long time. Many have gotten away with it and, I'm sure, there are some who believe themselves invincible even now. Time will tell but something has changed.

 

Dannyboy

[jpcpat]

Absolutely true.  I was also thinking in terms of empowering potential victims. It's a lot harder to victimize someone who knows they can speak out and be believed in the first place, and much easier to punish the predator.

 

I think what's beginning to change is that as a broad society, we're starting to develop a genuine respect for women, both in the workplace and as human beings.

 

 

Never is a long time. Many have gotten away with it and, I'm sure, there are some who believe themselves invincible even now. Time will tell but something has changed.

 

Dannyboy

[Mistress Rey]

From a perspective where sexual harassment is daily occurrence since a young age, none of those accusations are surprising. Just hope they aren't false accusations because it would undermine the true incidents of harassments. 

[questionmarks]

I'd be surprised if many women were surprised. On the other hand, I would expect many men to be surprised, not because "#notallmen" (which I, for one, think is obnoxious childish nonsense), but because we're so bad at recognizing/accepting when we are the perpetrators. A lack of courage, perhaps? In any case, it shouldn't surprise us. Sure, the scope of Harvey's vileness, and the power he had to protect himself, are vast. But lots of men are capable of small acts of vileness and violence, and of patterns of abuse and harassment. I'm grateful men are being forced to confront this to a greater and more public degree, and that women are being empowered to speak out, like jpcpat and others have said. I hope to keep learning to recognize my own fuckups (w/o demanding women be the ones to tell me), to own it w/o getting defensive, and to grow.

 

As for accusation v. conviction, the public is not a court of law, but we can still weigh evidence for ourselves. We can have more confidence, for example, if more than one accuser tells a similar story, especially if this comports with any evidence from the mouth of the accused; prosecutors also look for corroboration from contemporaneous witnesses, i.e., did she tell a friend or a family member, etc., around the time of an incident? Both of these (more than one overlapping accounts and corroborating contemporaneous witnesses) can be found in the cases of Roy Moore, Cosby, Weinstein, C.K., and others. Donald Trump, too, fwiw. 

[Dannyboy]

Years ago when I was working my way up the ladder in a hospital, a particular department head impressed me as an asshole. He threw his authority around in a most offensive way. When offered a promotion I refused to accept a position under his direct authority. There was a pretty and sexy secretary who often occupied my masturbatory fantasies. It became known that this asshole began to sexually harass her. She reported him to his superior and to HR and things quieted down. About a year later he started the harassment again and was promptly fired. That was a long time ago when it was risky to complain. I was proud of her and the decisive action in firing him. He was given a chance to be a good boy but he fucked it up and got bounced.

 

Many years later in the legal system I had access to his Estate file after he passed away.  I remember thinking that finally he had to answer to a higher authority. Too bad the Fortress didn't exist then. He might have been taught a little respect.

 

Dannyboy

[Mistress Justine Shankar]

Very much agree with Mistress Rey, in that having experienced harassment continuously from my early teens on (as has been the case with every woman I know), this does not surprise me at all. It remains very risky to report, as attested to by how many of these experiences resulted in retaliation and isolation that forced many victims out of their respective industries. Another thing I'm thinking about with all of this is: if these men felt this comfortable abusing well-known actresses with their own clout in the industry, how many more stories are we not hearing from women in far more vulnerable positions who had to interact with these people. It's really the tip of the iceberg, to my mind.

 

As for enjoying these people's work, I think there is so much talent that is shut out of Hollywood based on the fucked up system of power that gatekeeps who's in and who's out. Which includes those who were pushed out of the industry due to harassment and abuse. So I'm fine with casting these voices out and making room for all the talent and brilliance that their presence has silenced for so long.

[Jayman]

Very much agree with Mistress Rey, in that having experienced harassment continuously from my early teens on (as has been the case with every woman I know), this does not surprise me at all. It remains very risky to report, as attested to by how many of these experiences resulted in retaliation and isolation that forced many victims out of their respective industries. Another thing I'm thinking about with all of this is: if these men felt this comfortable abusing well-known actresses with their own clout in the industry, how many more stories are we not hearing from women in far more vulnerable positions who had to interact with these people. It's really the tip of the iceberg, to my mind.

 

As for enjoying these people's work, I think there is so much talent that is shut out of Hollywood based on the fucked up system of power that gatekeeps who's in and who's out. Which includes those who were pushed out of the industry due to harassment and abuse. So I'm fine with casting these voices out and making room for all the talent and brilliance that their presence has silenced for so long.

 

 

I really like your post Mistress Shankar!

 

(Forgive me if this is a long post but I have a very mixed view and have nothing but anger aimed towards these assholes)

This whole thing is fucking my head up because A) I work in the entertainment industry and see how screwed up everything is. And My sister was sexually harassed at her job and never said anything about it.  I only found out about it in July when it was addressed after a woman giving her exit interview to HR said something about it.  The guy kept his job and my sister was moved to another devision of her company.  I would have flipped my shit if my sister had told what was going on (Which is why she didn't tell me.).

 

100% of all women have been sexually harassed in some form or another.   Fuck you if you think otherwise.  Back in 2015 I was working on a TV show and had two female assistants.  Both were constantly harassed on set and had to put up with a mountain of bullshit.  There was one instance that, when I found out about it, became very heated.  I almost started brawling with a guy on set at a location because of his attitude towards my assistant.  He was such a fucking cunt (Sorry to swear so much) and kept bad mouthing her after she stood up to him.  His union got involved and tried to have my assistants and I fired from the production.  It was awful and puts into perspective how deep the iceberg actually is.  What we are seeing on the news are just high profile 1%rs getting busted.  The problem goes much, much deeper into the inner workings of our society.

 

Now on  the flip side I look at all these men in power committing these harassment's and cant help but get angry because they are all white males.   STOP THAT!  I'm a white male and you're making me look bad.  It's tough enough just being the height of a tall midget as it is you dick heads!    

 

This past Saturday I was at birthday party for a friend and wound up talking to three people that work in HR.  They were telling me that right now, if your a white male graduating from collage, you're going to have a tough road ahead of you. Suggesting that young white men should learn a trade or go into construction or think of the military as a career opportunity instead of going the corporate rout.  I mean that sucks and who do we have to blame for it?  These powerful fucking idiots that can't keep their ego or urges in check.  The whole thing is disgusting.