Universal Shame?

[Mistress Rey]

What would get to you the most?

If a beautiful woman were to criticize your lack of smarts?

Your unfortunate luck in genes?

Your thin wallet?

Or useless muscles? 

It's very individual, but also very cultural. Cultures around the world value wealth, strength, attractiveness, or intelligence differently.

For example, I would say Americans value beauty, wealth and fame, as we do have the most prominent entertainment industry in the world. Brawn was a more important trait in the early 20th century when industrial jobs were prevalent. Although recently, we have seen a cultural shift to value intelligence in the age of internet tech. I was thinking lately, do men still feel shamed by not being physically strong enough or masculine enough when our society no longer values those traits as they used to? 

 The English have always valued intellectual intelligence and family heritage. Japanese also value intelligence, but not so much emphasis on wealth. In Chinese and Russian culture, high social status is not only important to obtain but to show off, where as in France, ostentatious wealth is considered tasteless. South Americans, particularly Brazilians and Koreans value physical beauty highly (the biggest destinations for cosmetic enhancements). Would you agree with my (yes, very generalized) observation? 

What's fascinating about New York is that we have the chance to meet people from so many different countries and cultures, and so we would get to know different perspectives. There's no universal shame, or is there? What about you? What form of humiliation would shame you the most? 

[need to serve]

For me, what is most humiliating is situational.  For Mistress to just kind of randomly mock my intelligence would not be humiliating.  Had I failed at some task and Mistress pointed to my intelligence (or lack thereof) as the reason for failure would be somewhat humiliating.  For Mistress to mock my luck in genes in a random way would not be humiliating.  For Mistress to mock that someone of my gene caliber (I think that I made that up) could never attain someone of Her gene caliber while being made to crawl across the floor and beg for the privilege of a humiliating masturbation in her presence; well that's quite another story.  I think all of what you posted could be extremely humiliating in context.

 

[Dannyboy]

Dear Ms. Rey:

I am past that point in my life where these things make much of a difference to me. In my S & M world humiliation has never been an objective. 

On the more frivolous side I would defer an answer until I listen to 2 songs of the past to refresh my perspective on different times and cultures.

First, Sixteen Tons by Tennessee Ernie Ford and,

Second, Some Girls by The Rolling Stones.

Dannyboy

[SISSYJENNIFER3]

18 hours ago, Mistress Rey said:

What would get to you the most?

If a beautiful woman were to criticize your lack of smarts?

Your unfortunate luck in genes?

Your thin wallet?

Or useless muscles? 

It's very individual, but also very cultural. Cultures around the world value wealth, strength, attractiveness, or intelligence differently.

For example, I would say Americans value beauty, wealth and fame, as we do have the most prominent entertainment industry in the world. Brawn was a more important trait in the early 20th century when industrial jobs were prevalent. Although recently, we have seen a cultural shift to value intelligence in the age of internet tech. I was thinking lately, do men still feel shamed by not being physically strong enough or masculine enough when our society no longer values those traits as they used to? 

 The English have always valued intellectual intelligence and family heritage. Japanese also value intelligence, but not so much emphasis on wealth. In Chinese and Russian culture, high social status is not only important to obtain but to show off, where as in France, ostentatious wealth is considered tasteless. South Americans, particularly Brazilians and Koreans value physical beauty highly (the biggest destinations for cosmetic enhancements). Would you agree with my (yes, very generalized) observation? 

What's fascinating about New York is that we have the chance to meet people from so many different countries and cultures, and so we would get to know different perspectives. There's no universal shame, or is there? What about you? What form of humiliation would shame you the most? 

For me it needs to be something that I am already a bit ashamed of ....so it is my sissy cock....not that it is so small .......but there are bulls  that have monsters compaired to mine and yes size does win every time ..... Having the Mistress play on that is much more real then saying I am not educated....or poor...since I have a good job and  an Ivy education I would feel it is just role play which is ok but it does not go to my core.

[Mistress Justine Shankar]

On 3/26/2018 at 2:05 PM, need to serve said:

For me, what is most humiliating is situational.  For Mistress to just kind of randomly mock my intelligence would not be humiliating.  Had I failed at some task and Mistress pointed to my intelligence (or lack thereof) as the reason for failure would be somewhat humiliating.  For Mistress to mock my luck in genes in a random way would not be humiliating.  For Mistress to mock that someone of my gene caliber (I think that I made that up) could never attain someone of Her gene caliber while being made to crawl across the floor and beg for the privilege of a humiliating masturbation in her presence; well that's quite another story.  I think all of what you posted could be extremely humiliating in context.

 

This is very interesting; humiliation is most definitely contextual, depending on who is delivering it and how. 

The idea of exposure and vulnerability one cannot control is essential to humiliation, to me. Being fully and objectively seen, as one is, not how one strives to present to the world. Which is why I think it can be freeing, in certain situations... you're mortified, yet at the same time, you can stop strenuously keeping up appearances and be your whole self.

 

[Lonewolf.]

MISTRESS REY...Universal Shame?...with crazy Lonewolf would entail being subjected to the unknown most persuasive and most punitive depths not ever envisioned in the human female but conceivably ever so very viciously present interminably...in the SENSUAL WAR between the sexes each gender has a different criteria to endlessly pursue with forever changing contingencies of mutual acceptance...UNIVERSAL...most persuasively YES...SHAME...depends on your vulnerability to a specific issue.

[questionmarks]

Mistress Rey, I so love these reflections and questions of yours. Your points about culture, about the shifts in notions of masculinity across cultures and even within a single culture over time, are so spot on. As it happens, I do think strength and physical prowess are still baked into our culture's sense of masculinity, and I do certainly feel a sense of pride when I turn out to be stronger than someone expected, or a little hit of embarrassment should I turn out to be weaker.

One quirk of my personality is that, over the years, I've become more and more inclined to lean into embarrassment (as I like to describe it). Our knee-jerk reaction to embarrassment or shame is often to try to flee from it, obscure it, or make it go away as fast as possible, but I've learned that it can be more fun to simply own it and endure it. And it often takes the edge off. It's less embarrassing when you're not embarrassed by the embarrassment, and it's less fun to tease someone who doesn't seem to mind it. (Or at any rate it's easier to tease them in a good-natured way.)

But I do, of course, still sometimes hate embarrassment, and I do certainly feel deep shame sometimes. It's hard for me to imagine how someone might get to me in that way, especially what might get to me the most. This reminds me of your post about emotional sadism from a while back. I think to get to me, someone would have to have a pretty good sense of my psychology, and she'd have to make me dwell in decisions I've made that haunt me, and somehow manipulate me into that special kind of shame that hatefully builds on itself. ...if that makes any sense. In any case, it would probably have to be a woman, and a woman I find much more than just beautiful.

I can't think of anything that would qualify as universal shame, but that seems like a really interesting starting point for a good conversation

[Mistress Rey]

On 3/28/2018 at 6:44 PM, questionmarks said:

Mistress Rey, I so love these reflections and questions of yours. Your points about culture, about the shifts in notions of masculinity across cultures and even within a single culture over time, are so spot on. As it happens, I do think strength and physical prowess are still baked into our culture's sense of masculinity, and I do certainly feel a sense of pride when I turn out to be stronger than someone expected, or a little hit of embarrassment should I turn out to be weaker.

One quirk of my personality is that, over the years, I've become more and more inclined to lean into embarrassment (as I like to describe it). Our knee-jerk reaction to embarrassment or shame is often to try to flee from it, obscure it, or make it go away as fast as possible, but I've learned that it can be more fun to simply own it and endure it. And it often takes the edge off. It's less embarrassing when you're not embarrassed by the embarrassment, and it's less fun to tease someone who doesn't seem to mind it. (Or at any rate it's easier to tease them in a good-natured way.)

But I do, of course, still sometimes hate embarrassment, and I do certainly feel deep shame sometimes. It's hard for me to imagine how someone might get to me in that way, especially what might get to me the most. This reminds me of your post about emotional sadism from a while back. I think to get to me, someone would have to have a pretty good sense of my psychology, and she'd have to make me dwell in decisions I've made that haunt me, and somehow manipulate me into that special kind of shame that hatefully builds on itself. ...if that makes any sense. In any case, it would probably have to be a woman, and a woman I find much more than just beautiful.

I can't think of anything that would qualify as universal shame, but that seems like a really interesting starting point for a good conversation

Decisions that haunted you in the past, huh? That is very personal, and that kind of shame runs deep. 

That really tickles my curiosity. Hmm, more like, itches! 

[Mistress Vivienne Fang]

I have found that Americans, especially American men, are especially sensitive to wealth or lack thereof, and often feel the most humiliated when their income or net worth is put in comparison with that of someone much wealthier. It's very taboo in the US to reveal how much you make, or ask others how much they make. But in China, it's very common for even passing acquaintances to know each others' salaries. 

It's an interesting cognitive dissonance - we are so obsessed with money we hate talking about it.

[sissyrobbi]

great topic. i have struggled with shame my whole life. unknowingly for many years. i didn't understand it. how it worked. but when shamed. it would wash over me. i felt it. all over my body. i'm a fan of Brene Brown. her research recently into shame is pretty amazing. i feel like i've got a good sense of it. what triggers it. how it shaped me. how i have been dealing with it of late. 

i love being degraded. humiliated. esp for my tiny penis. i actually do have a tiny penis. not one of those amazing 7 inch cocks that call themselves small. lol. but outside of this i know shame all too well. mine is body image. fat. when i drink i get fat and i have been getting fat. if someone even jokes about my weight i lose it. its def my shame trigger. but shame can come out of left field and you might not know or see it coming. you can try to defend against it. for ex. i can join the gym and try and be the fittest guy in town. but in the end. shame will still crack thru plus i'll be exhausted and unhappy because i'm not truly being true to myself ) .. in the end .. its let go and let YOU!! as is ) 

ps 

but you can mock my tiny penis anytime anyway ) 

[Mistress Zora Jin]

4 hours ago, Mistress Vivienne Fang said:

I have found that Americans, especially American men, are especially sensitive to wealth or lack thereof, and often feel the most humiliated when their income or net worth is put in comparison with that of someone much wealthier. It's very taboo in the US to reveal how much you make, or ask others how much they make. But in China, it's very common for even passing acquaintances to know each others' salaries. 

It's an interesting cognitive dissonance - we are so obsessed with money we hate talking about it.

I spent last year studying abroad in China and discovered that the Chinese really like showing off their wealth. They love buying brand name handbags and clothing even if it looks super tacky. I feel like they are more insecure about their wealth than Americans because of their consistent need to show off. What do you think?

[Mistress Rey]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, Mistress Zora Jin said:

I spent last year studying abroad in China and discovered that the Chinese really like showing off their wealth. They love buying brand name handbags and clothing even if it looks super tacky. I feel like they are more insecure about their wealth than Americans because of their consistent need to show off. What do you think?

Do you think they would feel ashamed by being ridiculed for not having enough wealth or status? 

[Mistress Zora Jin]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:55 PM, Mistress Rey said:

Do you think they would feel ashamed by being ridiculed for not having enough wealth or status? 

I'm not sure, but when the Communist Party was in power, people took pride in being in the peasant class. The ones who were educated and rich were sent to the countryside to be "reeducated" by the peasants and made to work in the fields. That was around the time when my grandparents escaped to NYC, but they have been taught that being a peasant was noble and upright. It was a weird time for China, but I feel like the Cultural Revolution changed their perception of wealth completely.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Mistress Zora Jin

[Mistress Rey]

On 4/15/2018 at 9:23 PM, Mistress Zora Jin said:

I'm not sure, but when the Communist Party was in power, people took pride in being in the peasant class. The ones who were educated and rich were sent to the countryside to be "reeducated" by the peasants and made to work in the fields. That was around the time when my grandparents escaped to NYC, but they have been taught that being a peasant was noble and upright. It was a weird time for China, but I feel like the Cultural Revolution changed their perception of wealth completely.

 

Fascinating.