switches

[danovi41]

To all the swithces,

 

Do you usually enjoy starting out as dominant or submissive or does the chemistry between the players dictate the play?

[Milkdud]

Hey danovi41

I am a switch but have never switched within a scene at the Fortress although I have considered it recently. Entering sub space at the hands of Ms. Chan and others balances out my energies and charges my saddistic top energies producing some intense results for others. Both dom/top and sub/bottom seem to be two different headspaces but one never knows;-) It would be fun to explore. I imagine transitioning from dom to sub but not the reverse.

 

 

d/leatherwings

To all the swithces,

 

Do you usually enjoy starting out as dominant or submissive or does the chemistry between the players dictate the play?

[Guest]

To all the swithces,

 

Do you usually enjoy starting out as dominant or submissive or does the chemistry between the players dictate the play?

 

Danovi41,

Great question. It is definitely a decision that is mutually agreed upon unless there may be a specific script that details which one should start first. It is not always consistent or predictable with the same person. Sometimes it is a day for domming first or a day to let the pain come out. To answer your question, I truly enjoy both equally. The exchange is powerful and their is no race to experience subspace first. I am curious to know why you asked this question since there aren't many switch forum people (if they know it or not) :!: :?:

[BacchusNYC]

I'm a switch (although usually I'll identify as a dom and occasionally as a sub - pay for play I always sub). I find that most people I played with in the scene (I'm in a dry spell in a vanilla relationship right now, although it looks like that'll be changing shortly) you establish a power dynamic fairly quickly and for a given couple there will often be fairly static roles. I used to meet lots of girls that might be bi and would top women but that preferred to be submissive in their main M/F relationship.

 

I've very seldom come across true switches that were easily capable of switching roles with the same person (although I'm still looking as that'd be my ideal :-) ).

 

As for switching within a session, if I bottom properly and it's an intense session, I go deep into subspace and after that I'm looking to just roll up in a corner and be hugged - it blows out all of my dom energy. Not to say I couldn't get my ass beat for a while and then change roles, but that isn't really bottoming for me - that's just a little bit of fun. Equally if I'm doing my job right at a top, I find that my sub is usually pretty much mush after a session so there's no way they'd be in the mind space to top.

 

Not to say you couldn't switch over the course of a longer evening, and I've tried that a few times, but I tend to find that I prefer to take a role for an evening and then really get into it - whatever that role might be.

[whiplash]

I'm not a switch but I've spoken to a few and I think mutual chemistry and agreement dictates who takes the dominant role and who submits in a scene. I'm sure there are exception. Swith Minnie's comments are more authoritative than mine and seem quite accurate to me. I do wonder if there are more switches on this board who can speak to this topic.

 

whip

[Guest]

I'm a switch (although usually I'll identify as a dom and occasionally as a sub - pay for play I always sub). I find that most people I played with in the scene (I'm in a dry spell in a vanilla relationship right now, although it looks like that'll be changing shortly) you establish a power dynamic fairly quickly and for a given couple there will often be fairly static roles. I used to meet lots of girls that might be bi and would top women but that preferred to be submissive in their main M/F relationship.

 

I've very seldom come across true switches that were easily capable of switching roles with the same person (although I'm still looking as that'd be my ideal :-) ).

 

As for switching within a session, if I bottom properly and it's an intense session, I go deep into subspace and after that I'm looking to just roll up in a corner and be hugged - it blows out all of my dom energy. Not to say I couldn't get my ass beat for a while and then change roles, but that isn't really bottoming for me - that's just a little bit of fun. Equally if I'm doing my job right at a top, I find that my sub is usually pretty much mush after a session so there's no way they'd be in the mind space to top.

 

Not to say you couldn't switch over the course of a longer evening, and I've tried that a few times, but I tend to find that I prefer to take a role for an evening and then really get into it - whatever that role might be.

 

 

BacchusNYC,

That was really insightful. Thank you. It is interesting to hear that you define yourself as a switch but primarily a Dom. In addtion, that your pay for play is taking the subby role. There is definitely a trend I believe that you have identified. It appears that it is rather common for tops to go to a pro domme for a good dose of submissive correction. You also imply, tell me if I'm wrong, that it is hard to find a girlfriend that is willing to switch or remains submissive naturally. It is hard to find hetero-girls that want to top? Is their topping unsatisfactory or not intense enough?

 

I find experiences where one is curious and wants to see what it is like to switch roles. It can be enlightening for a sub to find a bit of satisfaction wielding a cane. Or a Top to find that he enjoys a little bit of spanking. It is so facinating to me. Whether novices or highly experienced players, I admire them for taking the risk to switch roles. I think you can reach a higher level of understanding and greater awareness of the interplay. I would like to believe that I am truly balanced as a Switch. Equally Yin and Yang. It centers me to have the luxury of both roles. Maybe that's why I always choose the vanilla/chocolate swirl ice cream cone. I love the way it is piped out so beautifully intertwined!

[Milkdud]

Minnie,

Nice metaphor anddelicious. Facinating thread. I'd like to add that, at least in my corner of the life style scene, it has always been easier to negociate scenes withh women who id themselves as sadistic tops or switches. A lot of S&M players also seem to switch roles. Finding power exchange play with women is more difficult. Perhaps there is more of a psychological/emotional investment?

d/leatherwings

[Guest]

Dear D,

Firstly, I hope your anticipation is growing as the countdown is coming to a head.

 

I believe switching by nature is in all of us. But we may choose that one is more appealing than the other. To paraphrase Whip's comments on Subspace Definition, there must be a certain passionate, intimate energy that is exchanged and shared for the affect of subspace to occur. I feel it is true for switching and finding the right switch partner. Being able to excercise sadistic and masochistic behaviors is only the beginning; the preliminary awareness. I have a hard time using the word "exchange" since it sometimes doesn't feel like it is passed back and forth as much as being shared simultaneously, flowing seamlessly. I feel, somewhere at sometime, the surrender is felt on both ends. You surrender your power to be a self willed individual so that a Domme may surrender her power to withhold empathy. Not to say that a Domme does not experience empathy during play, I mean surrender in a traditional/conservative type. Possibly this is what you mean, Leatherwings when you say it is hard to find switchable women? Culturally, since time began, women are not suppose to be powerful or dominant. Depending on the values you accquired in upbringing or life experience, you may have been pre programmed to be one or the other rather than being offered the validation to be both. Wow, I'm gonna get attacked when I see the other players!! Eek!

[BacchusNYC]

> If you are Dominant, Submissive, or as yet undecided Switch . . .

 

I think this quote from your mistress page actually captures a very common perception about switches.

 

Perhaps you should have it rewritten to:

 

> If you are Dominant, Submissive, or a doubly decadent Switch unwilling to limit yourself to only one half of the fun . . .

 

:-)

[BacchusNYC]

BacchusNYC,

That was really insightful. Thank you. It is interesting to hear that you define yourself as a switch but primarily a Dom. In addtion, that your pay for play is taking the subby role. There is definitely a trend I believe that you have identified. It appears that it is rather common for tops to go to a pro domme for a good dose of submissive correction. You also imply, tell me if I'm wrong, that it is hard to find a girlfriend that is willing to switch or remains submissive naturally. It is hard to find hetero-girls that want to top? Is their topping unsatisfactory or not intense enough?

 

I find experiences where one is curious and wants to see what it is like to switch roles. It can be enlightening for a sub to find a bit of satisfaction wielding a cane. Or a Top to find that he enjoys a little bit of spanking. It is so facinating to me. Whether novices or highly experienced players, I admire them for taking the risk to switch roles. I think you can reach a higher level of understanding and greater awareness of the interplay. I would like to believe that I am truly balanced as a Switch. Equally Yin and Yang. It centers me to have the luxury of both roles. Maybe that's why I always choose the vanilla/chocolate swirl ice cream cone. I love the way it is piped out so beautifully intertwined!

 

Hi Minnie,

 

You are welcome!

 

It is interesting. A lot of "true tops/doms" I know would never bottom - it just isn't their thing. They like topping, but bottoming doesn't work for them at all. I've also known a number of subs (both male and female) over the years who would have no interest in topping. I also know plenty of tops and bottoms who don't think switches are *real* tops/bottoms but are just undecided/unclear. In fact, in general I've noticed that quite a few people within the scene have negative reactions to switches. I've also found that if I describe myself as a switch it's often harder to get play partners, so when I go out on a given evening (when I'm not in a vanilla relationship!), I'll usually identify/act/be one or the other. The upside is that I'll seldom go to a club without at least finding someone to play with. The downside is that only maybe 1 in 10 of the people I play with will also be switches, so I tend to get bored after a while trying to play the role they would like me to stay within. The other 1 in 10 - however - keep me nicely amused for a while :-)

 

I do agree with you that even if you have a preferred role, trying the alternate role brings a lot more empathy and understanding and I think it's a great thing to try both sides even if you identify one way or another, but I know many people just aren't comfortable doing so.

 

I also love the balance of being able to switch. To me, a switch is someone who is comfortable with both roles and is happy to immerse themselves in both experiences. I could no more choose topping over bottoming that I could choose feeling over seeing.

 

In terms of the girlfriend thing, firstly, it's just plain hard to find a kinky girlfriend that I'd also want to date. I love incredibly smart, successful, well rounded, cute girls who've got lots going on in their lives and plenty of options and unfortunately such girls aren't all that common in the places I've looked in the scene, so I'm usually introducing vanilla girls to kink. That's OK as many of them have some submissive fantasies, but it's usually difficult to find a vanilla girl who'll really step into both the dom and sub roles - it's not that they aren't out there - it's just a matter of the specificity of the search criteria and the fact that there are only so many evenings in a lifetime to go through the potential candidates!

 

I also find it's hard to get a balance between a regular life and kinky play. Personally I'm not a lifestyle dom or sub. I like to tie girls up, to make them moan, to make them beg and then (usually) to make love to them, so for me, topping is all about creating amazing sensations (and making pretty packages - I'm just starting to learn more about rope bondage - just in time to tie up a package for xmas :-) ). That doesn't mean I just play light (although I'm not into single tails, cutting or branding), but it's all about the emotions I can evoke. Sometimes it's gentle sensations, sometimes it's completely messing with their beliefs about what and who they are, but the goal is always to help them to have a great experience and to be stronger for it (before I went into business I used to be a hypnotherapist in the UK for a while, so I'm very into "well formed outcomes").

 

Equally, I'm not going to kneel down every evening and do the chores. Pain is one thing, but doing all the chores? That's just cruel and unusual :-) I'm more of a bottom than a sub, although I find that bottoming will bring out my submissive side.

 

None of the girls I date are classically submissive (as in "whatever you want, dear"), although I find I usually bring out submissive sexual tendencies in a fair number of girls - including some that usually top and in at least one that was a pro dom when we met back in Houston a few years ago. I have a strong personality and love "messing" with girls and one thing often leads to another. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually dated a truly quiet/submissive girl - not enough fire to keep me around.

 

I have mixed feelings about introducing vanilla girls to topping. The issue for me is usually one of safety. I can top a vanilla girl and pretty much whatever happens physically or emotionally I'm comfortable in dealing with it. When I'm introducing a vanilla girl to topping, power exchange is impractical as it just isn't safe. We'll do some sensation play and some of the girls are naturals, but there is a long road from natural top to safe, capable and knowledgeable top, so I can't really just let go and drop into subspace.

 

My ideal partner would be someone with experience in both topping and bottoming who enjoyed both (without identifying as a lifestyler) and who had the rest of their life seriously together. I'm still looking, I'm but thoroughly enjoying the process of looking :-)

[Guest]

Bacchus,

Thank you for being so in tune with the definition and also the fact that Switches are perceived as "half assed." It is a derrogatory term in the BDSM world which is unfortunate. I respect those who are strong dommes or strongly commited to subbing but I dont feel it is necessary to judge Switches as "undecided, disingenuis, or fake." I hold on to the title of Switch with pride and dignity. It is truly a strength that I think is beyond the polar opposites.

 

I am sorry that it is hard for you to find a woman willing to domme knowledgeably. It is dangerous to put a bull whip in the hands of one who is unfamiliar or untrained, as I've one heard...(different story for another time).

I have found that there is some success on alt.com and that it is a good place to chat and see if these women are truly interested in switching as opposed to your "average girl at the bar scene." And I do agree that there is this idea that it is also considered "bad" to want a night of vanilla. I think everyone wants vanilla sometimes and it is absolutely incredible when it happens because it becomes as kinky as BDSM when it is experienced so seldomly!

I think people are intruiged with Switches and have a lot of questions or curiosity that they want to experience. I dont mind that. In fact, I find it important to know what your partner (dom or sub) is feeling or experiencing.

 

Switching is not for everyone and I don't expect the world to change on my behalf. But if there are curious ones, why not go a little beyond curious and find out? :!: :?:

[BacchusNYC]

Bacchus,

Thank you for being so in tune with the definition and also the fact that Switches are perceived as "half assed." It is a derrogatory term in the BDSM world which is unfortunate. I respect those who are strong dommes or strongly commited to subbing but I dont feel it is necessary to judge Switches as "undecided, disingenuis, or fake." I hold on to the title of Switch with pride and dignity. It is truly a strength that I think is beyond the polar opposites.

 

I agree. I also respect true doms and true subs, but for me, they're missing half the fun. It's like your bookish friends you can discuss Voltaire with but who don't know how great it feels to go surfing or boarding. Or your sporty friends who just don't "get" why books can be so cooooool . . .

 

I gotta say, that you might want to look at your profile page though . . .

http://fortressnyc.com/Players/Chan/index.htm

 

"If you are Dominant, Submissive, or as yet undecided Switch . . ."

 

I think maybe you should try out a new paddle on whoever wrote that copy :-)

 

I am sorry that it is hard for you to find a woman willing to domme knowledgeably.

 

Heck, my own dang fault. I've been traveling *way* too much. I've had a blast, but not had a chance to get my dating groove on in NYC!

 

It is dangerous to put a bull whip in the hands of one who is unfamiliar or untrained, as I've one heard...(different story for another time).

 

One of these days I'll ask you more about that one, but yeah, I have a couple of stories like that too - luckily none of the serious ones involved me directly . . .

 

I have found that there is some success on alt.com and that it is a good place to chat and see if these women are truly interested in switching as opposed to your "average girl at the bar scene." And I do agree that there is this idea that it is also considered "bad" to want a night of vanilla. I think everyone wants vanilla sometimes and it is absolutely incredible when it happens because it becomes as kinky as BDSM when it is experienced so seldomly!

 

For me kink is like spice. I love it, but rather than just piling on more and more I like to use it selectively to enhance the meal rather than making it the basis of every dish. I like romance, palling around, talking seriously, riding competitively, sharing dreams, trying new experiences and getting crazy kinky. I find mix and match makes all of the experiences more intense. Maybe I'll check out alt.com again when I get settled back in NYC next year. I tried it a while back and had a couple of cool experiences (funnily enough, one dom, one sub).

 

I think people are intruiged with Switches and have a lot of questions or curiosity that they want to experience. I dont mind that. In fact, I find it important to know what your partner (dom or sub) is feeling or experiencing.

 

Switching is not for everyone and I don't expect the world to change on my behalf. But if there are curious ones, why not go a little beyond curious and find out? :!: :?:

 

That's my pitch too :-) Shame I don't switch P4P, but no doubt we'll end up saying "hi" one of these days!