Is making your sub cry considered "breaking" a sub?

[skeech2]

Hi Skeech,

 

This is an fairly deep and complex topic to cover, but your correct in that crying is neither the goal or how it is measured. But since you asked here is my 1円

 

To keep the discussion as light as possible, I will only outline this topic.

• You have breaking in, which is the willing consensual breaking in. Basically it is about establishing procedures, routines and setting expectations. This is teaching the expected result of commands etc.
  
• Forcefully Breaking on the other hand is about removing limits. It's very similar to animal training. It's about establishing authority. It's about shaping response and behavior until its within the required tolerance. The loss of power and to feel ones core being stripped away is sometimes what the submissive seeking this relish. But as this tend to make the subject extremely dependent on the top, seeking approval for all actions etc. it can be dangerous to the subs mental health.
  

Your correct in that if an individual have few limits, then breaking that person is more difficult. But most people have limits.

 

YMMV, stay healthy!

 

HD.

 

Yes, a very complex topic indeed which is why I avoided it the first time. I think there has to be a distinction between the fantasy of being broken and the reality of it. It is in the reality that I would fear danger to mental health. The fact that I willingly lay myself at the feet of an Asian Domme in some eyes may be perceived as already broken. I see it as fantasy fulfillment.

 

Emotional releases that result in tears can be positive as mentioned several times in this thread. I am still not sure if that would considered being broken or if that would be considered a breakdown. I believe there is a big difference.

[Manpeach]

Honestly, I struggle with the term "being broken". What is being broken? Is it will? If so, it does not seem to me that one can be broken if he willingly submits. I would venture to guess than an emotional experience producing tears during session is rooted in something other than the breaking of one's will.

 

I agree the word "broken" conjures images of a sub who is 100% in BDSM life, completely devoid of self-esteem, sitting in the corner waiting for his mistresses instruction while she turns her attention to a new sub. So with that image I would have to change my thought on the word "broken" and use "opened" as in all defenses are down and all that is inside is available to my mistress. Also, when I think of myself as broken, it is more an "awaking", seeing this BDSM as more than a boyhood fantasy. Mistress Zhao is in my head and can reach inside anytime she desires. I'm sure she washes her hands when she is done.

[Dannyboy]

 

 

Crying is cathartic regardless of the motivation. Always has been, always will be.

 

While I had not cried in many years, I did so in my first Tran/Kang double domme session. It had nothing to do with physical pain, but everything to do with Mistress Kang's "I want to know a Secret game" which caused me to think about a serious hurt over 40 years ago. Bringing it back brought the tears. It was interesting. Pain the mind brings can be far more serious than any physical pain in my opinion.

 

I would be curious as to what others think. BTB thanks for bringing this current.

 

Howard

 

Howard:

 

So many times we place protective layers over the losses, failures and hurts in our lives. A Mistress might aggressively reopen a scar and all the repressed emotion comes out. There may also be a Mistress in whom your trust is so expansive that you share your most vulnerable moments with her. You voluntary shed those protective layers and expose your vulnerabilities. That can be a frightening experience from which there is no escape, yet the moments that follow are so cathartic and so emancipating.

 

This is also true of Mistresses who have a public persona to maintain. I've been with a few in their most vulnerable moments, tears flowing, bodies shaking, despondent. Then my inner strength and empathy is there completely: I truly understand and make it safe for them.

 

Dannyboy

[Dannyboy]

Honestly, I struggle with the term "being broken". What is being broken? Is it will? If so, it does not seem to me that one can be broken if he willingly submits. I would venture to guess than an emotional experience producing tears during session is rooted in something other than the breaking of one's will.

 

skeech..

 

I don't take the term literally. I see it as losing every sense of resistance and control. We may submit but there is usually something underlying that we have control over. It's when that control is removed we are broken.

 

Dannyboy

[Hound_Dog]

Well, another way to describe it is the systemic breakdown of the individual, and sequent restructuring process that all military organizations in the world calls boot camp. It's to create an group that puts the group ahead of the self, and follows any order without hesitations or thinking.

 

I agree that a forcefull breaking hardly fits in the SSC universe. As an weekend excercise it might be appealing to some, but please make sure to stay safe.

 

And yes Manpeach, GoT have Reeks which fits this description pretty well. But I like your metaphore of being opened, where the breaking down is done by the top earning loyalty, trust and respect.

 

HD.

[Howard]

Howard:

 

So many times we place protective layers over the losses, failures and hurts in our lives. A Mistress might aggressively reopen a scar and all the repressed emotion comes out. There may also be a Mistress in whom your trust is so expansive that you share your most vulnerable moments with her. You voluntary shed those protective layers and expose your vulnerabilities. That can be a frightening experience from which there is no escape, yet the moments that follow are so cathartic and so emancipating.

 

This is also true of Mistresses who have a public persona to maintain. I've been with a few in their most vulnerable moments, tears flowing, bodies shaking, despondent. Then my inner strength and empathy is there completely: I truly understand and make it safe for them.

 

Dannyboy

 

I meant to respond to this a few days ago. Of course the Mistresses have their personas to project, but I am certain they all have their vulnerable moments as well. It is a part of life.

 

After the session with Mistress Kang was over, I sent her a thank you note for the cathartic event. Felt great. There were several layers over the hurt, they needed to come off. I think Mistress Kang knew this, as she continued to probe deeper until the hurt was excised. It is a real skill that I am sure we all appreciate.

 

Howard.