Sadism v. Masochism

[Stinger]

I am submissive, although I like to switch. But with switching it's being gentle and having a good insight on her boundaries.

Sadistic is something else.

 

I enjoy being submissive to sexy Mistresses, maybe some soft, and even sadistic things.

[mongoose]

I had no idea this snuff film was in circulation. It's a part of life, albeit a part that I wouldn't condone or engage in either, mongoose.

And I think it's an important prerogative to ignore certain things, for it weakens its power over us.

 

You are right Mistress. You can't give such terrible things the power to affect you.

 

I'm sure any sadistic tendencies you have are applied with great skill and discipline... and don't end in decapitation.

[Mistress Chen]

i had a double domme session with Mistress Jung and Mistress Chen. you can ask them, I cant top for nothing. lol. It pained me just to think about hitting Mistress Chen. I just couldnt bring myself to do it. lol.

 

LOL oh my goodness! I will never, ever forget the look on your face when MJung commanded you to administer a spanking. Ahahahaha!

[skeech2]

I have another question as it relates to this topic that I would love to hear some feedback on. I am sure that it has been discussed to some degree but I am wondering if most feel that sadistic or masochistic desires are inherent or if they are developed. Maybe both desires exist in everyone and are materialized with life experiences or triggers. What might some of the triggers be?

 

Mistress Zhao, I was reading your comments about Rhianna not being a real Mistress based on her actions. I agree but wonder what it is that she is missing that precludes her from becoming a Mistress? Is it attitude? self esteem? Whatever it is, you have it. Where does it come from?

[whiplash]

Mistress Zhao,

 

I don't know but I imagine there must be some kind of sado-masochist scale. I think that most of us have both tendencies to some degree, although is more predominate. I am not a sadist but I do have sadistic fantasies, usually involving tormenting someone I don't like or just spanking female bottoms. I'm not really proud of my sadistic fantasies but I have to admit that I have them. I definitely lean towards the masochistic and submissive side of the scale. Even though I'm out of practice I still get excited by the thought of a sadistic woman dominating me physically and psychologically. I almost had a wet dream about Mistress Kang at the fortress last night. So for me my kinky urges are incredibly powerful.

 

whip

[Mistress Kang]

Ha ha, M. Zhao, I love this post. I truly enjoy both sides of the equation.

 

As my Mistress knows, I only am a submissive inside the FF. I think it's like being bisexual; those of us that "go both ways" just enjoy life on a higher plane. Besides, how could I know the true pleasure my subby girls enjoy if I've never taken the punishment myself? That's why my Mistress (she knows who she is) is so extraordinary- she's been able to "tame" me inside the walls of the FF at least, and girls outside should thank her for how she's made me a better master.

 

I think the BEST, world-class mistresses either switch openly (or secretly, like M. Kang does). How else would they excel at play?

 

So you mean that you don't believe that there are natural dominants? Or do you mean that you just don't believe there are naturally dominant women?

[Mistress Kang]

Mistress Zhao,

 

I don't know but I imagine there must be some kind of sado-masochist scale. I think that most of us have both tendencies to some degree, although is more predominate. I am not a sadist but I do have sadistic fantasies, usually involving tormenting someone I don't like or just spanking female bottoms. I'm not really proud of my sadistic fantasies but I have to admit that I have them. I definitely lean towards the masochistic and submissive side of the scale. Even though I'm out of practice I still get excited by the thought of a sadistic woman dominating me physically and psychologically. I almost had a wet dream about Mistress Kang at the fortress last night. So for me my kinky urges are incredibly powerful.

 

whip

 

whip- It thrills me to know that I can make the hairs on your body dance without even touching you ;-) Imagine what I do when I can!

 

Tell me, why does it bother you that you have these thoughts? What if the person you're tormenting were to enjoy it? What if you didn't like them and they enjoyed it? Would it bother you that you were providing them with a pleasure even though you don't like them, or is it only about your pleasure?

[Dashan]

So you mean that you don't believe that there are natural dominants? Or do you mean that you just don't believe there are naturally dominant women?

 

I've had this discussion with M. Jung. I am convinced, at the deepest fibers of my being, that there are no natural female dommes other than pro-dommes. (And even most of them "switch"). Maybe you are an exception to this rule- but I'm still convinced that even you, the "HEAD MISTRESS KANG" would secretly love to completely surrender, release, and be objectified by the right, strong master.

 

This is also why I love what you've done at the FF- you've identified very special women that are capable of dominating, at least in a professional setting. I in no way intend to imply that they don't enjoy their job; I simply mean that even they would love to be "topped" in their private life sometimes.

[TrackWarrior]

whip- It thrills me to know that I can make the hairs on your body dance without even touching you :wink: Imagine what I do when I can!

 

Tell me, why does it bother you that you have these thoughts? What if the person you're tormenting were to enjoy it? What if you didn't like them and they enjoyed it? Would it bother you that you were providing them with a pleasure even though you don't like them, or is it only about your pleasure?

 

uncomfortable...i hate that i like that

[Mistress Zhao]

I have another question as it relates to this topic that I would love to hear some feedback on. I am sure that it has been discussed to some degree but I am wondering if most feel that sadistic or masochistic desires are inherent or if they are developed. Maybe both desires exist in everyone and are materialized with life experiences or triggers. What might some of the triggers be?

 

Mistress Zhao, I was reading your comments about Rhianna not being a real Mistress based on her actions. I agree but wonder what it is that she is missing that precludes her from becoming a Mistress? Is it attitude? self esteem? Whatever it is, you have it. Where does it come from?

 

I wish I could give a thorough psychoanalysis of Rhianna, but I can't. One thing I do know is that people tend to unconsciously repeat the patterns their parents set for them.

Personally, I have known that the predominant factor in relating to males is the patriarch's model set in childhood. Females tend to gravitate toward men who reflect their own fathers back to them, hence if a female was devoid of a father figure, there may be confusion or a sense of unknowing. Perhaps Rhianna had an abusive father..

[whiplash]

whip- It thrills me to know that I can make the hairs on your body dance without even touching you :wink: Imagine what I do when I can!

 

Tell me, why does it bother you that you have these thoughts? What if the person you're tormenting were to enjoy it? What if you didn't like them and they enjoyed it? Would it bother you that you were providing them with a pleasure even though you don't like them, or is it only about your pleasure?

 

Dear Mistress Kang,

 

I think those thoughts bother me because of my personal and religious ethics. I've always been taught, and clearly have internalized, that is not only wrong to hurt another person but also bad to think about hurting them. I think that's where my guilt comes from. It doesn't bother me that my sadistic act would provide pleasure to my partner; that's actually something that I enjoy. I'm sure I a bit selfish but I like giving pleasure as well as receiving it.

 

whip

PS. I can't wait to see you again.

[Mistress Tran]

Pain slut more like it!

 

For me, the pleasure I get is very rooted in being a sadistic person but its also rooted in the control. Im a control freak- Ill admit that- Hi, my name is Lucy Tran and I am a control freak....but I agree it is also about balance- there are things I have learned that i do not have control of and shouldnt try to take control of. I find that the only masochistic tendencies are the one's I do to myself. I use to pluck all the hair from my crotch and armpits because I liked the sensation but also loved how perfectly cleaned it looked.

 

Mistress Zhao,

I identify as a switch and have for quite a few years although I used to bottom exclusively. Having said that, my fantasies center around masochism and submission, and I've always wondered whether topping/sadistic pleasure comes from causing painful or uncomfortable sensations to a bottom or experiencing them empathetically. And I think it is possibel to appreciate and worship a beautiful partner both from the perspective of bottom and top:) Its definitely a matter of maintaining the balance between yin and yang for me. I get far fewer opportunities to bottom outside of the FF so my scales are presently tipped heavily in the masochistic direction. There's no telling how deep they will go by the time I ring the bell at #19;)

LW

 

 

I wouldnt consider you either as well. You are definitely an obedient kinky boy!

 

I don't know if I can consider myself a sadist or masochist, really, more of a fetish enthusiast. I enjoy the give and take of control, at least in my personal sexual life. Normally, I'm a pretty aggressive person and probably borderline psycho (at least my thoughts are), but I like to be submissive at the Fortress. I think dominating one of the Fortress Ladies would feel a bit contrived to me, actually.

 

 

I think everyone has both naturally in them and I also believe people naturally sway to one side or the other but life experiences play a huge role. I think everything is very situational and there are so many factors that its really hard to generalize. For me, I have very sadistic tendencies and I have always had them- just suppressed due to social acceptance. As time has gone by, certain experiences have helped me understand and develop my sadistic nature. I do not switch- I have dabbled in the submissive world just to see how i feel about it and its just not me. I truly believe its not in my nature.

 

I have another question as it relates to this topic that I would love to hear some feedback on. I am sure that it has been discussed to some degree but I am wondering if most feel that sadistic or masochistic desires are inherent or if they are developed. Maybe both desires exist in everyone and are materialized with life experiences or triggers. What might some of the triggers be?

 

Mistress Zhao, I was reading your comments about Rhianna not being a real Mistress based on her actions. I agree but wonder what it is that she is missing that precludes her from becoming a Mistress? Is it attitude? self esteem? Whatever it is, you have it. Where does it come from?

 

I do not agree with this. i cant speak for the other Mistresses but I am one Domme who doesn't get topped even in my personal life. I have no issues with anyone who switches- more power to you for being able to have multiple ways of pleasure- but for me, my pleasure coms from being a top and having the control over my submissive's but also having the control to administer the kinky activities for those who are kinky but not submissive. I guess I am a kinky control freak!

 

I've had this discussion with M. Jung. I am convinced, at the deepest fibers of my being, that there are no natural female dommes other than pro-dommes. (And even most of them "switch"). Maybe you are an exception to this rule- but I'm still convinced that even you, the "HEAD MISTRESS KANG" would secretly love to completely surrender, release, and be objectified by the right, strong master.

 

This is also why I love what you've done at the FF- you've identified very special women that are capable of dominating, at least in a professional setting. I in no way intend to imply that they don't enjoy their job; I simply mean that even they would love to be "topped" in their private life sometimes.

[Milkdud]

Mistress Tran,

I am one striped, gashed, laserated, red, and black & blue pain slut today. And how intense and exstatic it was to learn the true depths of your and Mistress Zhao's sadistic streats. Indeed your demand for complete control was relentless and impossible to resist. And I don't believe any switch impulses will ever surface while under your boot!

LW

Ps I will never ever where a Hello Kitty bandaid again. LOL

[Mistress Tran]

You have only experience the beginning of the true darkness we hold inside. Let me take you by the throat and help guide you down the depths of true sadism. I promise it will hurt and you will wish you could stay forever.....do you trust me my sweet boy?

 

Mistress Tran,

I am one striped, gashed, laserated, red, and black & blue pain slut today. And how intense and exstatic it was to learn the true depths of your and Mistress Zhao's sadistic streats. Indeed your demand for complete control was relentless and impossible to resist. And I don't believe any switch impulses will ever surface while under your boot!

LW

Ps I will never ever where a Hello Kitty bandaid again. LOL

[wild willie]

trust her

[Big Trouble Baby]

I am certainly sadistic, borderline sexual sadistic. But just like anybody else, I get a giggle out of seeing someone fall down the stairs. Don't you?

 

 

 

If the person is a real scumbag I might get a kick out of it, but otherwise, no.

[Phred]

I wish I could give a thorough psychoanalysis of Rhianna, but I can't. One thing I do know is that people tend to unconsciously repeat the patterns their parents set for them.

Personally, I have known that the predominant factor in relating to males is the patriarch's model set in childhood. Females tend to gravitate toward men who reflect their own fathers back to them, hence if a female was devoid of a father figure, there may be confusion or a sense of unknowing. Perhaps Rhianna had an abusive father..

I agree with you that people unconsciously repeat patterns their parents set for them ("Dammit - I've grown up to be my freakin' Dad!"), but (at the risk of sustaining a severe beating at my next session) I might disagree with you on the patriarchal model you speak of. I think there may be some of that at play, but I believe that - in SOME women, not ALL - there is a stronger MATERNAL instinct at work. It's not so much that such females would gravitate towards men who are like their fathers, it's that some women assume a motherly figure in a relationship and believe that they can nurture and "change" their man. Yes, he's awful to me, but I can make him better. I've known plenty of women who wind up in relationships that they don't really care for, but stay with the man because of motherly instincts to mold, shape, direct and coddle their man. It appears to be based on their need to feel wanted and important and assume the caretaker role. This would be my guess as to what's going on with Rihanna, but as you state above, we'll never really know.

 

On the flipside of this, I think this is much less prevalent in today's society as it might have been even 10 years ago. It's pretty clear that women are very independent now, and the concept of women seeking out husbands out of necessity is long gone, as evidenced by the fact that most people are choosing to marry much later in life. At least, based on what I've seen and in my experience around me, women as a whole are choosing their mates very carefully and selectively more out of love than as a breadwinner or for security. They don't actually NEED a man - just look at how fiercely independent the Mistresses of the FF are. As far as I can tell, this represents a sea change within society as a whole, and has far-reaching (and yes, beneficial) implications.

 

You might consider this part of a paradigm shift, Mistress Zhao...

[TrackWarrior]

If the person is a real scumbag I might get a kick out of it, but otherwise, no.

 

Watch this all the way through if you have never seen it. THIS IS SADISTIC LOL "Kiss of Death" oldie but a goodie

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FHHJsXH3BiU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Big Trouble Baby]

Watch this all the way through if you have never seen it. THIS IS SADISTIC LOL "Kiss of Death" oldie but a goodie

 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FHHJsXH3BiU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

 

Couldn't access your link, Trackster, but I've seen the 1947 original many times and the remake once. That was Richard Widmarks' first movie and his only nomination for an Academy Award. Tommy Udo was one of the most sadistical characters in movie history.

[plugugly018]

Just read in the paper about those kids who tormented some poor lady on a bus to tears and couldn't help wishing I could see those scumbags on their eighteenth birthday so knock em out with a blunt object then kick their fucking teeth out one at a time.So i guess I'm a sadist afterall!!

[Mistress Zhao]

I agree with you that people unconsciously repeat patterns their parents set for them ("Dammit - I've grown up to be my freakin' Dad!"), but (at the risk of sustaining a severe beating at my next session) I might disagree with you on the patriarchal model you speak of. I think there may be some of that at play, but I believe that - in SOME women, not ALL - there is a stronger MATERNAL instinct at work. It's not so much that such females would gravitate towards men who are like their fathers, it's that some women assume a motherly figure in a relationship and believe that they can nurture and "change" their man. Yes, he's awful to me, but I can make him better. I've known plenty of women who wind up in relationships that they don't really care for, but stay with the man because of motherly instincts to mold, shape, direct and coddle their man. It appears to be based on their need to feel wanted and important and assume the caretaker role. This would be my guess as to what's going on with Rihanna, but as you state above, we'll never really know.

 

On the flipside of this, I think this is much less prevalent in today's society as it might have been even 10 years ago. It's pretty clear that women are very independent now, and the concept of women seeking out husbands out of necessity is long gone, as evidenced by the fact that most people are choosing to marry much later in life. At least, based on what I've seen and in my experience around me, women as a whole are choosing their mates very carefully and selectively more out of love than as a breadwinner or for security. They don't actually NEED a man - just look at how fiercely independent the Mistresses of the FF are. As far as I can tell, this represents a sea change within society as a whole, and has far-reaching (and yes, beneficial) implications.

 

You might consider this part of a paradigm shift, Mistress Zhao...

 

I think we're both right Phred. But I'll take it out on your big baboon behind anyway.

We (females) are heavily influenced by both our parents, given that we have two to raise us. Some don't. And to be perfectly honest, some I can see how you would surmise that women tend to assume a motherly role in a relationship -- given that they have the experience of witnessing their mothers in a relationship. Again, some single mothers remain single through a child's formative years, thus a void is created where the relationship to a man is concerned. But I can only speak from personal experience.

 

Living in New York gives me a slightly skewed perspective of independent women. The ones I've met here are fiercely independent, and very few are vying for the status of wifey. And others seek to redefine the concept of marriage altogether. But don't forget that the rest of America, especially the Bible Belt, is eons behind, and still a majority. But I have immense hope for this Paradigm Shift

[Mistress Zhao]

Conclusively, I think that there is most certainly a spectrum of sadistic to masochistic. Perhaps I could commission a sociologist or psychotherapist to build one.

A rainbow, or rather a grey scale. But NOT 50 Shades of Grey. Ugh.

 

"The impulse to cruelty is, in many people, almost as violent as the impulse to sexual love - almost as violent and much more mischievous." - Aldous Huxley

[Milkdud]

You have only experience the beginning of the true darkness we hold inside. Let me take you by the throat and help guide you down the depths of true sadism. I promise it will hurt and you will wish you could stay forever.....do you trust me my sweet boy?

Mistress Tran,

I have no doubt we have but briefly set foot in that perfect, ecstatic circle of darkness which we enter from opposite ennds. We shall again[ I both trust and fear you and willingly will surrender my breath and face the ordeal of your sadistic hunger and wrath for disobedience when the wheel turns, when I have no doubt you will break me;)

LW

[mongoose]

I think we're both right Phred. But I'll take it out on your big baboon behind anyway.

We (females) are heavily influenced by both our parents, given that we have two to raise us. Some don't. And to be perfectly honest, some I can see how you would surmise that women tend to assume a motherly role in a relationship -- given that they have the experience of witnessing their mothers in a relationship. Again, some single mothers remain single through a child's formative years, thus a void is created where the relationship to a man is concerned. But I can only speak from personal experience.

 

Living in New York gives me a slightly skewed perspective of independent women. The ones I've met here are fiercely independent, and very few are vying for the status of wifey. And others seek to redefine the concept of marriage altogether. But don't forget that the rest of America, especially the Bible Belt, is eons behind, and still a majority. But I have immense hope for this Paradigm Shift

 

I'm really starting to view marriage as nothing more than economic partnership. I'm even wondering if open relationships/marriages are prudent. I read a woman is more likely to practice safe sex in an open relationship vs. one where she "cheats." Of course, this ain't the place to be talking abt sex, is it?

[Milkdud]

I wish I could give a thorough psychoanalysis of Rhianna, but I can't. One thing I do know is that people tend to unconsciously repeat the patterns their parents set for them.

Personally, I have known that the predominant factor in relating to males is the patriarch's model set in childhood. Females tend to gravitate toward men who reflect their own fathers back to them, hence if a female was devoid of a father figure, there may be confusion or a sense of unknowing. Perhaps Rhianna had an abusive father..

Mistress Zhao,

Thank you for being so generous with your insights. I do agree that the parent-child attachment which occurs during the first few months of life as well as parentall modeling of romantic relationships or the absence of such relationships plays a major role in determining how we act and react with opposite gender romantic relationships in adulthood. But the role of media depictions of so-called kinky behavior needs to be accounted for as well. It is a very potent influence. I doubt I would ever have evolved into the perv I am today without Wonder Woman, Cat Woman, or specific images of Asian female supremacy taken from adolescent spy novels. And there were specific interactions I had along the way. I know plenty of kinky folk who did not come from unbalanced or sadomasicist parental circumstances. And I have always felt that experimentation and exploring the conventional boundaries of erotic pleasure was a good thing.